My guest today is the CEO of Career Gig, which focuses on helping freelancers do their freelancing while getting all the benefits of being a regular employee. Career Gig is a platform that allows freelancers to not only find work, projects, and opportunities but also connects those freelancers with benefits.

One of the big challenges of a self-employed independent Gig worker is you have a lot of freedom. You have independence, you can work when and how you want to work, but you don’t have some of the full-time benefits of health insurance, life, disability, or retirement.

Career Gig is built around the idea of connecting highly skilled professionals who do not want a full-time job and prefer the flexibility of freelance and contract work with benefits. The platform connects freelancers with companies that are looking for those highly skilled individuals to do work.

In addition to being the founder of Career Gig, my guest is the author of the books Agile Brand and the Center of Experience. My guest also hosts the Agile World podcast. He’s a brilliant businessman and with a mission to find better ways to connect people to the things they value most. I’d like to introduce to you, Greg Khilstrom.

To connect with Greg, you can visit his website


Unedited Transcript

Unknown Speaker 0:06
Welcome to the SAGE Mindset podcast where we believe all great leaders are self aware, stay accountable and have a mindset that fosters growth and empowerment in their lives in the lives of those they lead. When you listen to this podcast, you could expect to learn about the small changes you can make in your behaviors and thinking today that will create massive change for the future of your leadership, and business. Hi, I’m Kyle Gillette, owner of Gillette solutions and hosted this podcast. Thanks for listening. My guest today is the CEO of career game, which focuses on helping freelancers do their freelancing and get all the benefits of being a regular employee. He’s the author of Agile brand, and the center of experience. My guest also hosts the Agile world podcast. He’s a brilliant businessman and with a mission to find better ways to connect people to the things they value most. I’d like to introduce to you, Greg kallstrom. Well, hello ever Welcome to the SAGE Mindset Today I have Greg kallstrom with me, and I’m excited to interview him and learn a little bit more about career gig and his past history and his work and his books that he’s written. There’s just a lot of history with Greg, and a lot of work that he’s done. And he’s contributed in so many ways that so many different people. So I’m excited to learn the passion behind that the mission behind that and what got him started in all of this. So welcome to the SAGE Mindset podcast.

Unknown Speaker 1:25
Oh, thanks so much for having me. Looking forward to talking.

Unknown Speaker 1:28
Yeah, I appreciate you being here. So if you could, can you just share a little bit about what career gig is? I just want to start there, because I’m super fascinated by it. I think it’s such an amazing idea. And I think there’s people out there that are listening that this would be very beneficial to them. So go ahead and share with us what that is.

Unknown Speaker 1:47
Yeah, absolutely. So career gig is a platform that allows freelancers to not only find work, so jobs, projects, opportunities, and things like That but also connects those freelancers with benefits. So one of the big challenges as a self employed independent gig worker, whatever you want to call it is you have a lot of freedom. You have independence, you can work when and how you want to work, but you don’t have some of the the full time benefits of some of the benefits of a full time employee like health insurance or life, disability, retirement, all of those types of things. And so, career gig is really built around the idea of connecting highly skilled professionals who do not want a full time job, but they’re highly skilled in what they do, but they prefer the flexibility of freelance and contract work, but they also want that safety, net of health, life, retirement, all those types of those those services that they might otherwise take a full time job in order to get and so we’ve we’ve built this platform to really connect them with company needs that are looking for those highly skilled individuals to do work.

Unknown Speaker 3:04
Yeah, that’s great. I mean, that’s very intriguing to me as a as a freelancer, business owner myself, just the idea of getting benefits as a result of doing the same work that I’m currently doing. What are some of the people that are that are engaging you in this? Who are you looking for? What are their skills?

Unknown Speaker 3:21
Yeah, I mean, we work with a few different industries. You know, it technically anyone from any any industry or skill set could join, but there’s a few industries that were focused on a little bit more than others. So, right now, the healthcare industry, as you would imagine, is for many reasons, but you know, COVID related, you know, needs are a big one right now, but healthcare is big technology, really anything related to the technology sector has always been, there’s always been a lot of contract work and freelance work involved in it. We’re seeing other needs such as like Retail manufacturing and a few others as well, but really, you know, anyone is welcome to join. But like I said, those those core industries are where we’re also finding a lot of needs on the company side, you know, companies that want to hire a lot of a lot of freelancers and contractors in a certain sector.

Unknown Speaker 4:19
Yeah. So as you’ve pursued this, what have been some of the barriers that you’ve had to overcome to make this possible?

Unknown Speaker 4:26
Yeah, I think the insurance the the regulatory component of this, I think, is one of the big ones. And, you know, we started focusing, we’re solely focused on the United States right now. And you know, because I do believe there’s, there’s been some progress as far as getting the Affordable Care Act passed. And so that does open up healthcare, access to a lot of people but there’s still a lot of room to grow. And so we wanted to focus domestically first, you know, we’re based just outside the DC area. ourselves. So, you know, understanding and finding a way to be able to offer insurance to freelancers. That is obviously we have to pass the regulatory hurdles, we need partnerships with the big insurance providers. So you know, we work with Blue Cross and and Aflac and several others, a large insurance providers to be able to do that. So we can provide it at scale. We’re licensed in all 50 states. So that’s, that was another hurdle to overcome. We have not only are we licensed and able to offer insurance, but we can offer advice and advisors for that. So those were those were some big hurdles there. I mean, on the other on the other pieces, the technology hurdle of building the platform, certainly not my first time building a web application or, you know, an online platform, but certainly, you know, it’s that that was a that was a hurdle to overcome as well building in API access to systems and we integrate not only with payment system thumbs and all that on the on the freelancer side. But we can also integrate with the large like applicant tracking systems as well as like HCM HR is on the HR technology side. So really, you know, bringing all that stuff together has been a bit of work.

Unknown Speaker 6:18
So in this process, I mean, this is Yeah, it is a bit of work. It sounds like and it sounds really robust. Sounds really amazing. But in this process, you’ve had to learn a lot about yourself and overcome your own limitations in the process. What What is stood out to you about what you’ve learned about yourself?

Unknown Speaker 6:35
Yeah, sure. I mean, I think I’d like to think I learned a little bit something every day. And I think, you know, this is my second stint as a CEO. And you know, the first time I’m proud I had a marketing agency for a dozen years or so, and sold that back in 2017. I’m certainly proud of the work that I did, but I will say I learned a lot back then I made plenty of mistakes and I think, you know, that’s really the best way that I’ve learned. And you know, so over even over the last several months when career gig has been getting off the ground, I definitely have an eye for I want to understand all the moving pieces and all that but you know, the ability to delegate and trust that the work is going to get done without seeing all the details. Like that’s, that’s something I still, I’ll confess, I still I still struggle with a bit from time to time, just maybe it’s the perfectionist part of me or something like that. But yeah, that’s that that’s something and then, you know, just knowing and trusting that when we have a good idea that it’s going to be able to be done. I mean, there were there were moments there when we weren’t exactly sure how some of these pieces were going to fit together but really bringing in the right partners bringing in experts I’ve got you know, my one of one of our partners has been doing the insurance game for 30 odd years and and really, really experienced not just knowing and trusting that if we have a good enough idea at our are intense or could then that we’re going to find a way to get it done.

Unknown Speaker 8:04
So one of the big pieces I’m hearing is obviously there’s mistakes and there’s lessons learned and all that but also you’ve sounds like you’ve surrounded yourself with really good people, the right people. But there’s this little bit of a hiccup. This has way I don’t want to let go. So how have you been learning to let go of the things because you mentioned being a perfectionist at times? How have you figured out how to let go because there’s a lot of people that struggle in the same way a lot of my clients struggle in the same way with, they have it they’ve got to figure it out. They know how to do it. So what’s your process to release?

Unknown Speaker 8:37
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the biggest The biggest thing for me is when when it’s successful, it’s because I’ve clearly defined quantifiable and results that I want to achieve and if I don’t do that, if it’s a very subjective like, I want this to be really good. Well, you know, that’s, that’s so open for interpret to me. I have to say, I haven’t said that in a while. But the more open you leave it, then you know, if you have a really smart person and a really creative person, they’re going to come up with a very creative definition of good sometimes and maybe that aligns with with what you want, or maybe it doesn’t, it’s still good, but it’s subjective. Good. And so, you know, finding ways to quantify the the qualitative, you know, if that even makes sense, you know, has gone a long way to being, you know, this, this is what Don is, from my standpoint, you can have quite different different measures of does it look good? Does it feel good, all of those kinds of things, but being able to agree on the end point, I think that that helps so much.

Unknown Speaker 9:42
Do you have a specific process you follow to determine that? What does that look like for you?

Unknown Speaker 9:48
Um, I’d like to say that I have, it’s, it’s more robust than it is, but I do I do take the time before I mean, I guess a couple things I before I, let’s say assign a tag. Ask and sometimes it’s a little a little bigger and broader than that. But before I ask someone to do something, I take a step back and say, Okay, well, is there a way that I would recommend doing this just based on my experience? If I know a process to get there very quickly, then you know what, it’s the onus is on me to help define that. If I don’t know that, then I worked with with someone to say, okay, we’re in a startup. And you know, as in any company, I’m sure this is the case, but especially in the startup, every document that we make everything that we do, I want to think of things as if you have to make a document that is going to be used more than one time, make a process to make that document so you can explain to everyone from the intern on up to you know, Senior Vice President, how do you make that document the second 200th time and i think you know, when you think about that, that comes more naturally to some people than others, but when you teach everyone, that mindset of You know what, if you’re gonna if you’re gonna do this, once you You’re probably going to do it 100 times. Let’s think this through a little bit better. I think I think that really helps as well. And and it helps you at least think through getting, getting a process down and getting to let’s just say, getting to the first Wrong answer more quickly. get to that right answer, right?

Unknown Speaker 11:17
Yeah. And as you as you get to that wrong answer for a second, third time, if you’re documenting this tracking it, then then you’re not gonna make that same mistake. Again, I really like the idea of repeating the process. So once once you’ve figured something out, you’re saying document it, and then they can be repeated 100 times 1000 times, whatever it is. Can you talk a little bit about what it’s been like to write books, obviously, you can mention a little bit about the books you’ve written. But you’re you’re a very busy gentleman. There’s a lot of things you’re up to, and I really appreciate the efforts that it takes to write a book. I’ve written one myself, and I’m in the middle of trying to write one right now. What has been your experience in that world? And how has it benefited you to have those books?

Unknown Speaker 12:04
Yeah, so there’s there’s definitely a few things to unpack in that. So first of all the, the books themselves. So I’ve written a few others off off of this topic. But I’ve written several books, three books on the on this, called the Agile series. So started with a book about agile web design and development, then wrote a book called agile brand, talking more about branding and marketing and using an agile framework. I wrote a book called the Agile consumer, which goes a little bit further into customer experience, currently working on a book called the Agile workforce, which is really much, much in line with with what we’re doing at career gig and really the future of work. But in that process, I will say the first time I wrote a book, I had no idea what I was doing. But I think part part of what I’ve understood about myself and I’ve said this and in the Agile the beginning of the Agile consumer was I’m an agile person. What I realized Not only do I just keep naming books, agile something, and I have a podcast called the Agile world as well. But I realized that the my process is a very iterative process. And so you know, the first time I wrote a book, I had no idea what I was doing, I will say, it’s not my best book, but I did it, I finished it, the second one was better. And by the time I got to the second one, and especially the third one, I had a process of the way that I write and I would set aside time to, to write on certain days, a lot of things and a lot of other people gave me advice and told me but you know, much as it happens, I was like, Yeah, yeah, that’s fine for you, but I’ll figure out my own way. And sure enough, here I am, you know, following their advice, you know, three years later or something, but, you know, sometimes I guess you just have to kind of do it for yourself, but, but I did find that I’m on this journey, this agile journey of you know, I don’t know exactly what the next step is going to be. But over time, I’ve kind of defined this continuum that I What my life’s work is kind of about. And it’s and it’s interesting that again, I don’t know what the subject of the book after the next one is going to be about, but I know the overall framework though it will probably follow.

Unknown Speaker 14:12
So for those that don’t know, can you define what you mean by agile?

Unknown Speaker 14:17
Yeah, absolutely. So I think there’s there’s two ways of looking at it one, there is a far more formal agile methodology. And it started off in manufacturing and in software development, and it is a you know, you can become a scrum certified, you know, agile developer or, or project manager and things like that. I have an agile certification of my own and business practices, but you don’t have to be a formal agile, you know, methodology subscriber in order to be agile and adopt the principles. So, most of what I talked about is really agile in the broader sense of the term of instead of thinking And planning to use a marketing example, I guess. So you know, instead of building a 12 month marketing plan and saying, you know what, we’re going to run this for 12 months, and then at the end of the year, we’ll figure out if we were successful or not, the world just doesn’t work like that anymore. It works in smaller increments. I mean, there’s a reason why we have real time data and access to analytics and all those things on a, if not real time, near real time basis. And so, an agile methodology would say, Okay, let’s break that into smaller chunks and say, you know, every two weeks, let’s take a look at the numbers and let’s iterate, optimize. And, you know, sure enough, at the end of the day, our 12 month plan is still to sell the same amount of widgets that we might have, you know, had in a 12 month plan, but how we get there changes because the world changes too quickly to wait, you know, 12 months to you know, to really take a look back and, and modify and stuff like that, and I think the one other component to is being agile doesn’t mean you’re simply being reactive. I think that’s a lot of people hear that and say, oh, okay, well, you’re gonna look at the data and Okay, the campaign isn’t doing well in the last 24 hours. So everybody freaked out and change everything. It’s not that it’s actually agile actually protects us from that as well. I mean, the downside of having access to real time data is that we get to see things at that might even look like they’re failing in real time. But really, it may be they may be self correcting, or there may be a glitch and something that you need to fix. But it doesn’t mean that you need to be reactive, it means you actually get the get the liberty of taking a little bit of time looking at the data and then going back and making changes at a at a regular pace.

Unknown Speaker 16:46
Yeah, so it’s the idea that the work that we get done needs to be viewed in smaller increments, and that the data needs to be frequently reviewed as well. It’s interesting because I started tracking data as it relates to my clients. It’s quantitative or qualitative. I mean, and then data as it relates to getting clients. And that’s more quantitative. Yes, that’s right. Anyway, it’s been amazing because as a result of having that data, I’ve made some simple adjustments that have saved me a ton of time. And so are there any particular arenas that businesses genuinely struggle with being agile in?

Unknown Speaker 17:28
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s there’s a lot of areas where agile is yet to be really adopted, or it’s making its first forays. So, you know, I think technology was the first because, you know, really, it started. I mean, it did start in manufacturing, really, but you know, it really started being more formally adopted in the software and technology world. Marketing was an easy one to start adopting that and so agile marketing, I would say, you know, was pretty early on, you know, probably early 2000s. When’s that it really, that it really started catching on, a lot of people didn’t even use that name. But they, they were doing those practices of operations, HR, there’s finance, there’s there’s a lot of realms where there’s a lot of benefit to being able to do this. And I will say, it’s making very, in some cases, very slow inroads into those areas. But I mean, think about when you when you think about the operations of an organization, if you were to make it more iterative, and you know, and more agile, what could you do even with a large organization, that that could make a huge difference? I think where it’s starting to make some inroads is is in management of teams and things like that, and that that may span different different disciplines. And so the things like in HR having more frequent reviews, instead of an annual review, it’s like, you know, what does anyone do with an annual review? I mean, a lot of people don’t even wait out the whole year to quit, you know, the average tenure is going down. So it’s like, you know, an annual review is kind of a joke. So having more frequent reviews, giving more frequent feedback and making those course corrections more often actually keeps people more engaged and increases those 10 years and engagement and productivity. So I think maybe HR is the next realm that I’m seeing that take, you know, take place. You know,

Unknown Speaker 19:21
I think of agile, I think of football player, especially running backs. As there’s all kinds of things going on. There’s a whole team that helps them to be able to run, but then the defense is responding dynamically. And so just like a, as you’re trying to achieve a goal, things are dynamically happening that are either hindering or accelerating that goal. And when you were talking about the Agile is not reactive. In my mind, I went to, it’s responsive. So you’re responding to the circumstances does that. Does that ring true to the method to this methodology?

Unknown Speaker 19:55
Yeah, Yeah, it does. I think that’s a great I might I might borrow that that’s a that’s a great way of looking at it, I think, you know, from from a football analogy, I mean, that is definitely a compressed, you know, timescale to do that. But, you know, even even that, I mean, there’s timeouts and there’s, you know, there’s ends of quarters that, you know, there’s, there’s times to adjust and optimize and all that. So that’s actually that’s actually a really good analogy of, there are things where, you know, even you know, back to the marketing world, if if a campaign is clearly in freefall and not working, or if there’s just a mistake, like, you do need to react, you shouldn’t wait two weeks to, you know, fix a typo in your advertisement or whatever. But to make a major change, and to make a major strategic decision, you should wait and you should take, let it run its course and you know, you you, that’s where you kind of have to have faith in the team that puts these things together. And you know, there if there’s a reason why the strategy was made, if there was researched on all those things, you can’t just throw those out because you have a bad day. You know, on whether it’s on the field or in the campaign or whatever it is.

Unknown Speaker 21:04
So if I’m on a team that is pursuing this approach, is there a way for me to keep score? Because you mentioned the data. So is there a way for me to know what the data is? Is that something that’s available to me readily as, as necessary, the supervisor, but someone that’s really doing the implementation work?

Unknown Speaker 21:25
Yeah. I mean, I’m a strong believer in creating dashboards for the metrics that matter. And so I mean, I’ve literally on my other screen here, I’m not looking at it right now, because we’re doing this interview, but like, I’ve literally got my dashboard up. And so for me as CEO of a software company, I’ve got, you know, how many users are we signing up per day? How are those users using the product like are they active users, you know, things like that, that are important for a CEO to see and some of those I have a marketing bent, so some of those skew a little too. Towards the marketing side, but really like, I need those numbers. And I need to know to the earlier, the earlier part of our conversation, I need the people in charge of making those numbers happen to know that that’s what I’m looking at. And that that’s how success is judged. You know, my head of product doesn’t understand that. That usage of the product is an important metric for us to be able to talk to, you know, whether it’s investors or whatever, then, you know, how can we possibly be successful because they’re going to be focused on some other completely different thing, probably, totally valid problem that they’re they’re trying to solve, but to not know what the value what a measure of success is. You know, we’re not all we’re not all completely aligned.

Unknown Speaker 22:42
Right? So so a business owner CEO needs to do even just a manager on a team that’s implementing this, they need to do a great job of making that data readily visible, available, and clear. Otherwise, you don’t know what the score is that it makes me think back to the football analogy. If the guy is running on the field with a ball and they have no idea With the scores, the motivation is gonna be very slim. And so you get that scoreboard and it’s pretty clear. But I think about so my past history I used to run a pet resort I ran one for about three years and awesome job love the job. And I wouldn’t say we had a great metrics, we didn’t have great data necessarily, besides the basics, you know, kind of the the lag measure stuff. So if if someone’s wanting to, you know, h back company, or you know, pet resort, for example, they’re not software companies, they’re not in it in on technology. How does agile apply to them? How can they use this in their context?

Unknown Speaker 23:38
Sure, I think they’re still really important metrics that you can measure. And yeah, you don’t want to make so there’s there’s two things with data. I mean, one is, there are some things that would be really nice to be able to measure but it takes so much time, effort and money to get that those numbers that it’s actually counterintuitive to get them so There’s that piece. And then on the flip side, there are numbers that are very easy to see, but not very meaningful. And so, you know, I think, as marketers, and I’ve worked with plenty over the years, they tend to fall victim to the ladder, which is okay, well, Google Analytics when I pull up the main screen, I see this number, therefore, this number must be a very important one. Well, no, not really, most of the time, no, like, you know, pageviews are, it needs to be able to see but that is not the metric of success of a business. And so I think for you know, whether, whether it’s a pet resort or an H company, there are there are meaningful numbers that that you probably already have such as, you know, what is the what are the amount of repeat customers that you have, that’s a really good measure of are you doing a good job because, you know, sure enough people are going to buy by again, their h vac system may not break every you know, every month, hopefully, but there’s still gonna come back? Or are they refer? You know, are you getting referrals? Like what’s the, when you ask someone how they found you? That’s a really easy question to ask, you know, someone when they call you for the first time, like, are you getting referrals? Like that’s, that’s an easy way to measure success and then some other more complicated numbers. Yeah, you know, a five person 10 person 20 person company even may not have access to the most sophisticated analytics and, and it may not actually be worth investing the time and effort to do that. But look at the numbers that you do have, and what are the things that actually drive you know, behavior from your customers, it’s probably things like repeat visits, and maybe even the dollar amount per, you know, per purchase or things like that and stuff that you probably even have in your accounting system, that you could probably easily pull in an Excel sheet. So I think that’s, that’s, I mean, it’s a great question because I think it’s, again, you don’t want to be distracted by the numbers that are too easy to find, and yet not meaningful but chances are there’s some meaningful things sitting in front of you that you can use.

Unknown Speaker 26:04
Yeah, and like you said earlier about taking the time to step back and actually evaluate and look at the big picture, look at the situation and not be reactive, and establish a clear goal that makes sense. So these these business owners, myself yourself, we all need to do that and go, okay, what’s the most pertinent info but then because we’re being agile, if that proves to not be the most important information, we can respond and adjust to that which is beautiful. I love the just the word agile just immediately makes me think about quick shifts, if needed, but also being smart about where you shift and all that. You said something earlier, though, that I want to come back to, and it was that this is you discover that this is what is your life is your life’s work. And so how did you come to that conclusion? How did you discover that?

Unknown Speaker 26:57
Yeah, I think, you know, the process was A very agile and iterative one is like I kept, I kept coming to coming back to try to talk about the same problem or challenge in the same way. And I think, you know, it goes even even deeper than simply talking about agile. And what I found is what I keep talking about really is a much bigger shift, and probably the one that you know, will extend way beyond my lifetime. But it’s really the idea that the more that individuals have access and choice and agency to make their own decisions, the more power that they will have. And so there is a growing shift, even though some days it doesn’t feel that way. And, and many people are in many different situations. There is a growing power dynamic shift between, you know, individuals, and let’s call it large organizations, whether that’s companies, governments, whatever the case may be, and we are on a trajectory slow as it may be, to end up visuals having more and more power. And what I see is, you know, from a marketing standpoint, when consumers have more choice 50 odd years ago, there were three, you know, packages of soap on the shelf or whatever. And now, you know, you can custom buy soap on Etsy. And you know, there’s unlimited choice for most things, when you have that kind of choice, all of a sudden that that extreme power that a few brands had goes away, and now all of a sudden, they’re fighting to hold on to customers. And you know what, that’s not even bad for the companies. It’s not a matter of good and bad. It’s not about it’s not a matter that big organizations are, are evil or anything like that. It’s more a matter of there will be more equity and there is a little more equity now and there needs to be more and I think when there is more, it’s really a win win for everyone. Companies will find their perfect customers more easily. Customers will be happy about being marketed to because they actually are being marketed to by companies that they want to hear from. I think it’s, you know, this gets utopian and so on and so forth, you know, way down the pike, but I think we’re on a we’re on a path to that. And so you know, for my small part, I talk about things where individuals power is increasing because of the that increasing access and an agency that they’re that they’re getting.

Unknown Speaker 29:26
Right and what’s what’s beautiful is you’re in a significant way contributing to that. Because between the books that you’ve written, the this career gig thing you’re doing and your past work history, you’re actually really contributed moving that ball forward, not just participating in it, but actually kind of setting the stage a little bit and a lot of people don’t get that opportunity. A lot of people are afraid to do that. So I mean, that’s amazing. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 29:51
it’s no I appreciate you saying that and I feel you know, just I’m I feel lucky and honored to be able to do if I make it Any progress in that in that overall picture like I, you know that that would be an amazing accomplishment on on for my life And so yeah, I feel like at the very least I can talk about it and, and share ideas and to your point if I can make some contribution towards that then then all the better.

Unknown Speaker 30:18
Right And that’s, that’s a big deal affects a lot of people’s lives. My dad was, he’s a farmer and we were talking about about this quite a while ago, but I asked him about impact and the impact that he was making legacy, that type of stuff. And he made a point to me about how, you know, they have 60 to 80 employees that are working for him and his uncle. And what what they’re doing though, is that he’s helping each one of those families have a livable wage, have a livable income, and what you’re doing with career gig is giving a bunch of these entrepreneurs these freelancers an opportunity to do that as well to one degree or another.

Unknown Speaker 30:59

Unknown Speaker 31:01
No, you’re good. And it’s a beautiful thing. I mean, I think that having the foresight and the courage to do that is super encouraging. So I’m really, I mean, I really appreciate it. For sure.

Unknown Speaker 31:13
Thanks so much. No, I appreciate it. Well, yeah. I mean, I, it’s, it’s interesting, you know, my, my father was, you know, he’s retired now, but was self employed. He started his own company when I was four years old. I really don’t know anything different than I’ve had a couple full time jobs over the years. But, you know, his father came over from Sweden and you know, to start a better life for his family. And so therefore, my father started his own company, and I now you know, trying to do that, trying to continue that on and I think it’s a, that’s really all we can do is try to make the world a little bit better than how we found it.

Unknown Speaker 31:50
Yeah, hundred percent. So Greg, thank you very much for your time, if you could you just share again, how we can get a hold of you and some of the content that you have available to folks out there.

Unknown Speaker 32:01
Yeah, absolutely. So, first of all, I recommend you going to career gig, it’s career that’s the website. You can find my books on Amazon or I have a websites for them that Greg kallstrom comm as well. And please feel free to reach out to me over LinkedIn. I’m very active there, you know, some, you know, connect and happy to have conversations.

Unknown Speaker 32:24
Awesome. Well, thank you again for your time. Appreciate it, and I

Unknown Speaker 32:27
love the insights that you shared as well. Thanks so

Unknown Speaker 32:30
much for having me.

Unknown Speaker 32:34
Thank you again for listening to this episode. If you’d like more, you can find us on all the main podcast channels including Apple, Spotify and Google Play. Please take a moment to give us a quick five star review. We really appreciate that. If you’d like to support the podcast beyond a review, you can find me on slash SAGE Mindset on there you’ll find various levels of tears and bonuses that come with them. I really want to add as much value as I can to the members that sponsor us. If you’d like to get a hold of me, please visit Gillette solutions comm or you can email me directly at Kyle at Gillette solutions calm and you can learn more about the services I have, and potentially even sign up for the SAGE Mindset course. So thanks again for listening

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